Hi everyone!
nopCommerce uses Kendo UI-Framework. I was wondering, how this can be legal, to distribute a free and open source product like nopCommerce with a proprietary UI framework, which costs several hundred Dollar?
Since all the KendoUI-files are minified I guess, this is somehow legal.
The question I have is: May I use KendoUI to create plugins or modifications? For example may I use the 'k-button' css-class, so my plugins look like the rest of the shop?
May I use it, when I want to sell my plugins or create a shop that will be used commercialy? Or do I have to buy an KendoUI-licence?
Using Kendo UI legal?
Team Member
- 16611
- 155790
- 10/22/2008
- Armenia
KendoUI has several editions. And nopCommerce uses Kendo UI Web Open Source licensed under GPL v3 License. So it's legal to use it
Team Member
- 16611
- 155790
- 10/22/2008
- Armenia
Just download Kendo UI open-source edition and ensure that it's there.
Team Member
- 16611
- 155790
- 10/22/2008
- Armenia
a.m. wrote:
After some investigation I've found that Telerik team recently replaced Kendo UI Web (licensed under GPLv3 and distributed WITH grid) with a new product - Kendo UI Core (licensed under Apache and distributed WITHOUT grid). Here is the announcement. As you can see in the comments a lot of people were resent the grid is removed. Then Telerik simply disabled comments on this blog post announcement. I presume they can lose a lot of users with this move.
Of course, we can move to Kendo UI Core later and maintain grid ourselves. But it would be better if Telerik changes its position and adds the grid back to the core.
Just download Kendo UI open-source edition and ensure that it's there.
After some investigation I've found that Telerik team recently replaced Kendo UI Web (licensed under GPLv3 and distributed WITH grid) with a new product - Kendo UI Core (licensed under Apache and distributed WITHOUT grid). Here is the announcement. As you can see in the comments a lot of people were resent the grid is removed. Then Telerik simply disabled comments on this blog post announcement. I presume they can lose a lot of users with this move.
Of course, we can move to Kendo UI Core later and maintain grid ourselves. But it would be better if Telerik changes its position and adds the grid back to the core.
MVP
Silver Solution Partner
Certified Developer
- 2639
- 42712
- 1/21/2010
- United States
a.m. wrote:
Hi Andrei,
It looks like there are two options:
1. Keep using the grid without upgrading to the new paid Grid.
2. Get a license and always use the latest version of the Grid. It is royalty free, so you can distribute it with nopCommerce.
In both cases (even before when the Grid was open source) if someone wants to use the Grid (as we do in our plugins), they have to get a license for Kendo UI. As most people use nopCommerce as it is then this doesn't really matter for them. It would really matter for vendors that want to use the Grid in their products.
Thanks
Just download Kendo UI open-source edition and ensure that it's there.
After some investigation I've found that Telerik team recently replaced Kendo UI Web (licensed under GPLv3 and distributed WITH grid) with a new product - Kendo UI Core (licensed under Apache and distributed WITHOUT grid). Here is the announcement. As you can see in the comments a lot of people were resent the grid is removed. Then Telerik simply disabled comments on this blog post announcement. I presume they can lose a lot of users with this move.
Of course, we can move to Kendo UI Core later and maintain grid ourselves. But it would be better if Telerik changes its position and adds the grid back to the core.
After some investigation I've found that Telerik team recently replaced Kendo UI Web (licensed under GPLv3 and distributed WITH grid) with a new product - Kendo UI Core (licensed under Apache and distributed WITHOUT grid). Here is the announcement. As you can see in the comments a lot of people were resent the grid is removed. Then Telerik simply disabled comments on this blog post announcement. I presume they can lose a lot of users with this move.
Of course, we can move to Kendo UI Core later and maintain grid ourselves. But it would be better if Telerik changes its position and adds the grid back to the core.
Hi Andrei,
It looks like there are two options:
1. Keep using the grid without upgrading to the new paid Grid.
2. Get a license and always use the latest version of the Grid. It is royalty free, so you can distribute it with nopCommerce.
In both cases (even before when the Grid was open source) if someone wants to use the Grid (as we do in our plugins), they have to get a license for Kendo UI. As most people use nopCommerce as it is then this doesn't really matter for them. It would really matter for vendors that want to use the Grid in their products.
Thanks
- 897
- 21860
- 4/18/2011
- Poland
Hi Guys
nopCommerce should buy Kendo, only the latest versions of the libraries provide safety and comfort.
In my opinion in plugins we can use license from nopCommerce.
Because plugins works only with nopCommerce - you can't use it in other application.
By the way we had to bought Kendo UI license.
nopCommerce should buy Kendo, only the latest versions of the libraries provide safety and comfort.
In my opinion in plugins we can use license from nopCommerce.
Because plugins works only with nopCommerce - you can't use it in other application.
By the way we had to bought Kendo UI license.
- 11
- 293
- 4/26/2013
- United States
Nop-Templates.com wrote:
Ok, so just to be extra clear here, in order to create and resell products/plugins for NopCommerce 3.3 and higher, you need to buy a Kendo UI professional license?
Just download Kendo UI open-source edition and ensure that it's there.
After some investigation I've found that Telerik team recently replaced Kendo UI Web (licensed under GPLv3 and distributed WITH grid) with a new product - Kendo UI Core (licensed under Apache and distributed WITHOUT grid). Here is the announcement. As you can see in the comments a lot of people were resent the grid is removed. Then Telerik simply disabled comments on this blog post announcement. I presume they can lose a lot of users with this move.
Of course, we can move to Kendo UI Core later and maintain grid ourselves. But it would be better if Telerik changes its position and adds the grid back to the core.
Hi Andrei,
It looks like there are two options:
1. Keep using the grid without upgrading to the new paid Grid.
2. Get a license and always use the latest version of the Grid. It is royalty free, so you can distribute it with nopCommerce.
In both cases (even before when the Grid was open source) if someone wants to use the Grid (as we do in our plugins), they have to get a license for Kendo UI. As most people use nopCommerce as it is then this doesn't really matter for them. It would really matter for vendors that want to use the Grid in their products.
Thanks
After some investigation I've found that Telerik team recently replaced Kendo UI Web (licensed under GPLv3 and distributed WITH grid) with a new product - Kendo UI Core (licensed under Apache and distributed WITHOUT grid). Here is the announcement. As you can see in the comments a lot of people were resent the grid is removed. Then Telerik simply disabled comments on this blog post announcement. I presume they can lose a lot of users with this move.
Of course, we can move to Kendo UI Core later and maintain grid ourselves. But it would be better if Telerik changes its position and adds the grid back to the core.
Hi Andrei,
It looks like there are two options:
1. Keep using the grid without upgrading to the new paid Grid.
2. Get a license and always use the latest version of the Grid. It is royalty free, so you can distribute it with nopCommerce.
In both cases (even before when the Grid was open source) if someone wants to use the Grid (as we do in our plugins), they have to get a license for Kendo UI. As most people use nopCommerce as it is then this doesn't really matter for them. It would really matter for vendors that want to use the Grid in their products.
Thanks
Ok, so just to be extra clear here, in order to create and resell products/plugins for NopCommerce 3.3 and higher, you need to buy a Kendo UI professional license?
Team Member
- 16611
- 155790
- 10/22/2008
- Armenia
I've had an email conversation with a Telerik representative for the last two days. If I got him right, then it's NOT allowed to use "Kendo UI Professional" or "UI for ASP.NET MVC" in official nopCommerce package (not plugins) even if we purchase the license. Still looking for some final confirmation reply from him. Let me copy our discussion (a bit simplified) here:
Andrei:
Hi,
My name is Andrei. I’m CEO of nopCommerce shopping cart (https://www.nopcommerce.com/). This is quite popular ASP.NET open-source product with more than 1million downloads.
We already use open-source (GPLv3) license of KendoUI. But we’re interestedin usage of “KedoUI. UI for ASP.NET MVC” license. We need server wrappers. If we (nopCommerce team) purchase the license ($999), then can we use it in our open-source project? Is it allowed by our license? Note that we’ll include KendoUI assemblies into our packages, and every download will contain them. I just want to be sure that $900 is the only fee for us (nopCommerce team) and our cart users won’t have to puchase it too (only one-time fee from our team, not from customers). We want to be sure that our cart users will be able to use nopCommerce for free for them
Best Regards,
Andrei Mazoulnitsyn
Nop Solutions, Ltd
Rocky (Telerik team):
Hi Andrei,
Thank you very much for the email and for your interest in Telerik’s development tools. Unfortunately, your request does not fit into our licensing standards. Our EULA does not allow for our products to be included in an open source project, as they are commercial libraries.
The only way this would be OK is if you removed our assemblies prior to shipping your code and mentioned in your legal agreements that all of your clients would need to purchase a license from Telerik.com.
Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything else that I can do to assist you.
Kind regards,
Rocky
Andrei:
Hi Rocky,
One of our customers also contacted Telerik today. And he’s been told that we CAN use “KendoUI. UI for ASP.NET MVC” in our open-source shopping cart because it’s “Royal free”. We just cannot distribute its source code. So why two Telerik representatives (you and some other one) tell distinct things. Can we use “KendoUI. UI for ASP.NET MVC” in our open-source shopping cart WITHOUT providing its source code (just java-script files and assemblies)?
Best Regards,
Andrei Mazoulnitsyn
Nop Solutions, Ltd
Rocky (Telerik team):
Hey Andrei,
Thank you for the email. It appears that the issue is related to some confusion from the other Telerik representative, and it might be because of the way the client asked how this could be approached. A couple of things that I can highlight:
• For an end-user to download an open-source project and then include a Telerik UI suite on their own is fine, as long as the open-source licensing is OK with this. Since the end-user is keeping this code to themselves and are not distributing this to their market to have free access to.
• The risk with open-source projects is larger since yes, the minified version of the files can be included, but this offers more or less a direct way for someone to circumvent accessing our assemblies and JS files via Telerik. Instead any user can download their source code and get access to a developer version of our controls, which is not allowed. This can be protected by their own EULA, but that brings me to my next point.
• Since they have included our older GPLv3 licensed controls this means that their own project must be licensed under GPLv3. A large piece of GPLv3 is that legally they are required to hand over the source code of not only their own code, but all libraries included within their project. This means that even if they were to try to distribute only our minified files their clients can make them legally obligated to provide our source code. Our standard EULA does not allow them to include our products in such viral license agreement scenarios.
Let me know if this clears up any confusion or if there are additional questions.
Kind regards,
Rocky
Andrei:
Hi Rocky,
Thanks. But the answer is still not clear. Let me ask it one more time
1. nopcommerce is an open-source product
2. We (nopcommerce ) purchase the KendoUI license (“UI for ASP.NET MVC”). Note that it’s “royalty-free”
3. We include and this product (“UI for ASP.NET MVC”) in nopcommerce. We include only minified java-script files and compiled DLL files
4. We re-distribute nopcommerce (it’s the open-source project)
Is this scenario allowed? Please answer “yes” or “no”.
Andrei:
Hi,
My name is Andrei. I’m CEO of nopCommerce shopping cart (https://www.nopcommerce.com/). This is quite popular ASP.NET open-source product with more than 1million downloads.
We already use open-source (GPLv3) license of KendoUI. But we’re interestedin usage of “KedoUI. UI for ASP.NET MVC” license. We need server wrappers. If we (nopCommerce team) purchase the license ($999), then can we use it in our open-source project? Is it allowed by our license? Note that we’ll include KendoUI assemblies into our packages, and every download will contain them. I just want to be sure that $900 is the only fee for us (nopCommerce team) and our cart users won’t have to puchase it too (only one-time fee from our team, not from customers). We want to be sure that our cart users will be able to use nopCommerce for free for them
Best Regards,
Andrei Mazoulnitsyn
Nop Solutions, Ltd
Rocky (Telerik team):
Hi Andrei,
Thank you very much for the email and for your interest in Telerik’s development tools. Unfortunately, your request does not fit into our licensing standards. Our EULA does not allow for our products to be included in an open source project, as they are commercial libraries.
The only way this would be OK is if you removed our assemblies prior to shipping your code and mentioned in your legal agreements that all of your clients would need to purchase a license from Telerik.com.
Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything else that I can do to assist you.
Kind regards,
Rocky
Andrei:
Hi Rocky,
One of our customers also contacted Telerik today. And he’s been told that we CAN use “KendoUI. UI for ASP.NET MVC” in our open-source shopping cart because it’s “Royal free”. We just cannot distribute its source code. So why two Telerik representatives (you and some other one) tell distinct things. Can we use “KendoUI. UI for ASP.NET MVC” in our open-source shopping cart WITHOUT providing its source code (just java-script files and assemblies)?
Best Regards,
Andrei Mazoulnitsyn
Nop Solutions, Ltd
Rocky (Telerik team):
Hey Andrei,
Thank you for the email. It appears that the issue is related to some confusion from the other Telerik representative, and it might be because of the way the client asked how this could be approached. A couple of things that I can highlight:
• For an end-user to download an open-source project and then include a Telerik UI suite on their own is fine, as long as the open-source licensing is OK with this. Since the end-user is keeping this code to themselves and are not distributing this to their market to have free access to.
• The risk with open-source projects is larger since yes, the minified version of the files can be included, but this offers more or less a direct way for someone to circumvent accessing our assemblies and JS files via Telerik. Instead any user can download their source code and get access to a developer version of our controls, which is not allowed. This can be protected by their own EULA, but that brings me to my next point.
• Since they have included our older GPLv3 licensed controls this means that their own project must be licensed under GPLv3. A large piece of GPLv3 is that legally they are required to hand over the source code of not only their own code, but all libraries included within their project. This means that even if they were to try to distribute only our minified files their clients can make them legally obligated to provide our source code. Our standard EULA does not allow them to include our products in such viral license agreement scenarios.
Let me know if this clears up any confusion or if there are additional questions.
Kind regards,
Rocky
Andrei:
Hi Rocky,
Thanks. But the answer is still not clear. Let me ask it one more time
1. nopcommerce is an open-source product
2. We (nopcommerce ) purchase the KendoUI license (“UI for ASP.NET MVC”). Note that it’s “royalty-free”
3. We include and this product (“UI for ASP.NET MVC”) in nopcommerce. We include only minified java-script files and compiled DLL files
4. We re-distribute nopcommerce (it’s the open-source project)
Is this scenario allowed? Please answer “yes” or “no”.