@Arvand: Thank you for the explanation.
However (and with all due respect), in my mind that still shows poor capacity planning on your part.
Best hosting for NopCommerce
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arvand wrote:
Users that are having issues are generally on the older hardware. Some limitations that we hit with these environment is not that we can't upgrade the ram, it's that the OS doesn't support it. Many of the environments have OSes that can only support 32 GB of Ram. Well, our latest servers (a brand new account) will have 192 GB of ram. And even though we haven't placed new users on our older servers for a year +, the needs of the users on the older servers warrants more memory on the server.
What matters is the server utilization not the server capacity. I'd rather get a shared hosting plan on a 32GB server that hosts 10 applications than get a shared hosting plan on a 192GB server that hosts 300 applications. If the new customers are happy with the new servers, they are happy because the new servers are less utilized than the old ones, not because the new servers have larger memory.
Users that are having issues are generally on the older hardware. Some limitations that we hit with these environment is not that we can't upgrade the ram, it's that the OS doesn't support it. Many of the environments have OSes that can only support 32 GB of Ram. Well, our latest servers (a brand new account) will have 192 GB of ram. And even though we haven't placed new users on our older servers for a year +, the needs of the users on the older servers warrants more memory on the server.
What matters is the server utilization not the server capacity. I'd rather get a shared hosting plan on a 32GB server that hosts 10 applications than get a shared hosting plan on a 192GB server that hosts 300 applications. If the new customers are happy with the new servers, they are happy because the new servers are less utilized than the old ones, not because the new servers have larger memory.
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- 6/22/2011
- United States
r_omar wrote:
What matters is the server utilization not the server capacity. I'd rather get a shared hosting plan on a 32GB server that hosts 10 applications than get a shared hosting plan on a 192GB server that hosts 300 applications. If the new customers are happy with the new servers, they are happy because the new servers are less utilized than the old ones, not because the new servers have larger memory.
Precisely my point. It's poor capacity planning because they should not have put more users than the hardware could handle.
I would think part of the decision making progress would involve forecasting usage in order to determine service levels and limitations (among other things).
What matters is the server utilization not the server capacity. I'd rather get a shared hosting plan on a 32GB server that hosts 10 applications than get a shared hosting plan on a 192GB server that hosts 300 applications. If the new customers are happy with the new servers, they are happy because the new servers are less utilized than the old ones, not because the new servers have larger memory.
Precisely my point. It's poor capacity planning because they should not have put more users than the hardware could handle.
I would think part of the decision making progress would involve forecasting usage in order to determine service levels and limitations (among other things).
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- 10/30/2010
- United States
r_omar wrote:
Users that are having issues are generally on the older hardware. Some limitations that we hit with these environment is not that we can't upgrade the ram, it's that the OS doesn't support it. Many of the environments have OSes that can only support 32 GB of Ram. Well, our latest servers (a brand new account) will have 192 GB of ram. And even though we haven't placed new users on our older servers for a year +, the needs of the users on the older servers warrants more memory on the server.
What matters is the server utilization not the server capacity. I'd rather get a shared hosting plan on a 32GB server that hosts 10 applications than get a shared hosting plan on a 192GB server that hosts 300 applications. If the new customers are happy with the new servers, they are happy because the new servers are less utilized than the old ones, not because the new servers have larger memory.
And what makes you think a shared plan server is going to stay at 10 applications? It's a shared server. That means that you are sharing it with other users. And hence the users can create new applications. Did you not know what you were buying when you purchased at Arvixe? We provide the most for less. That also does mean that you are going to be sharing the server with a lot of other applications.
Now, please do outline, which one of our competitors are putting you on a server not only with 192 GB of ram but also OS/SQL/mySQL on SSD drive RAID and your data on 15K RPM RAID? Please do, because I'd like to hear it.
madestro wrote:
However (and with all due respect), in my mind that still shows poor capacity planning on your part.
This is not about capacity. We handle a lot of applications. Nopcommerce used to not use as much memory. But its not nopcommerce's fault. The same thing happened with Sitefinity, mojoportal, etc. etc. etc. The list goes on. Frameworks upgrade, they use more memory. Users demand more features and more complex application. That uses more memory.
Ultimately, your comments come from individuals who clearly don't understand the hosting world. Hardware NEEDS to be upgraded every 2 years. That's what it is. No mistakes were made here. We are just making sure that during this upgrade and migration, we are not actually causing issues for the 90+% of users who have absolutely no issues with our hosting. While doing the upgrade which will cater to the 1-10% that may have one issue or another with the shortage on memory.
The goal for our shared hosting was never to be the mercedes of shared hosting (by the way there is no such a thing). That goes against the very principle of shared hosting. Shared hosting is meant to be affordable and feature rich. Not restrictive. But it comes with some issues (shared servers ALL come with issues, at ANY provider, if you haven't had any issues yet, it's because you haven't used it long enough yet). Which you are now experiencing.
The goal is to be something like the Hyundai of shared hosting. You get the most bang for your buck. And that's what it is.
You want to spend a lot of money? Then get a VPS. That's what its there for. And ours IS the most stable in the industry. I'll put any amount of money on it. And hence the price clearly outlines it.
I'm not posting here to argue with people whose single aim is to bad mouth the Arvixe brand. If that was it, I wouldn't be posting here.
It's to simply outline some options for current customers (who are here) and appreciate what we are doing (and there is many more of them at Arvixe than any of the companies you've mentioned - http://www.arvixe.com/survey/results ) but are not happy with their current situation. And an option is there, we will create a free account for them on the new 2012 servers today and they can use it until they transfer all data off of the old account.
That being said, I'm sorry that I crashed your party here of bashing Arvixe. Please do continue. But for the sake of being fair. Compare apples to apples. And don't assume. Use facts.
We have a liaison here (which I very much appreciate - Thank you) who will be able to escalate any actual customer issues. What's sad is half of these posts are by individuals who haven't even used our hosting services...
Users that are having issues are generally on the older hardware. Some limitations that we hit with these environment is not that we can't upgrade the ram, it's that the OS doesn't support it. Many of the environments have OSes that can only support 32 GB of Ram. Well, our latest servers (a brand new account) will have 192 GB of ram. And even though we haven't placed new users on our older servers for a year +, the needs of the users on the older servers warrants more memory on the server.
What matters is the server utilization not the server capacity. I'd rather get a shared hosting plan on a 32GB server that hosts 10 applications than get a shared hosting plan on a 192GB server that hosts 300 applications. If the new customers are happy with the new servers, they are happy because the new servers are less utilized than the old ones, not because the new servers have larger memory.
And what makes you think a shared plan server is going to stay at 10 applications? It's a shared server. That means that you are sharing it with other users. And hence the users can create new applications. Did you not know what you were buying when you purchased at Arvixe? We provide the most for less. That also does mean that you are going to be sharing the server with a lot of other applications.
Now, please do outline, which one of our competitors are putting you on a server not only with 192 GB of ram but also OS/SQL/mySQL on SSD drive RAID and your data on 15K RPM RAID? Please do, because I'd like to hear it.
madestro wrote:
However (and with all due respect), in my mind that still shows poor capacity planning on your part.
This is not about capacity. We handle a lot of applications. Nopcommerce used to not use as much memory. But its not nopcommerce's fault. The same thing happened with Sitefinity, mojoportal, etc. etc. etc. The list goes on. Frameworks upgrade, they use more memory. Users demand more features and more complex application. That uses more memory.
Ultimately, your comments come from individuals who clearly don't understand the hosting world. Hardware NEEDS to be upgraded every 2 years. That's what it is. No mistakes were made here. We are just making sure that during this upgrade and migration, we are not actually causing issues for the 90+% of users who have absolutely no issues with our hosting. While doing the upgrade which will cater to the 1-10% that may have one issue or another with the shortage on memory.
The goal for our shared hosting was never to be the mercedes of shared hosting (by the way there is no such a thing). That goes against the very principle of shared hosting. Shared hosting is meant to be affordable and feature rich. Not restrictive. But it comes with some issues (shared servers ALL come with issues, at ANY provider, if you haven't had any issues yet, it's because you haven't used it long enough yet). Which you are now experiencing.
The goal is to be something like the Hyundai of shared hosting. You get the most bang for your buck. And that's what it is.
You want to spend a lot of money? Then get a VPS. That's what its there for. And ours IS the most stable in the industry. I'll put any amount of money on it. And hence the price clearly outlines it.
I'm not posting here to argue with people whose single aim is to bad mouth the Arvixe brand. If that was it, I wouldn't be posting here.
It's to simply outline some options for current customers (who are here) and appreciate what we are doing (and there is many more of them at Arvixe than any of the companies you've mentioned - http://www.arvixe.com/survey/results ) but are not happy with their current situation. And an option is there, we will create a free account for them on the new 2012 servers today and they can use it until they transfer all data off of the old account.
That being said, I'm sorry that I crashed your party here of bashing Arvixe. Please do continue. But for the sake of being fair. Compare apples to apples. And don't assume. Use facts.
We have a liaison here (which I very much appreciate - Thank you) who will be able to escalate any actual customer issues. What's sad is half of these posts are by individuals who haven't even used our hosting services...
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- United States
One more reiteration of the above. I am here. IndigoTea is here. Noah and Ryan are here to help CURRENT customers with their issues. I went back the last 3 pages. It's either someone who doesn't have a hosting account and is commenting or they've had a hosting account at some point but don't anymore. (IE the businessClass guy who supposedly tried us for 2 months, that comment makes no sense, our businessclass is absolutely superior to any of other other companies you've mentioned here
We can't help you if you don't have a hosting account. But just because you had an issue and did not seek help does not mean all 50,000 customers at Arvixe are having issues. If that was the case, we wouldn't be in business.
Reach out, we are here to help. And from my stand point, having tried a lot of other hosting companies, I would use Arvixe over anyone else. Simply because we are the only active company out there in the communities.
We can't help you if you don't have a hosting account. But just because you had an issue and did not seek help does not mean all 50,000 customers at Arvixe are having issues. If that was the case, we wouldn't be in business.
Reach out, we are here to help. And from my stand point, having tried a lot of other hosting companies, I would use Arvixe over anyone else. Simply because we are the only active company out there in the communities.
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- United States
@Arvand: That's very poor P.R. on your part. If I was your manager, I would fire you on the spot.
Lashing out at former customers publicly is not going to do you any good.
Server capacity goes hand in hand with utilization. I don't need to be a hosting guru to know that. Just so you know, I am a computer consultant and run my own business. I am also a Software Engineer with 15+ years of experience.
Just because it's a shared server doesn't mean you have to overload it with hundreds of customers/applications. It's called planning.
arvand wrote:
Now, please do outline, which one of our competitors are putting you on a server not only with 192 GB of ram but also OS/SQL/mySQL on SSD drive RAID and your data on 15K RPM RAID? Please do, because I'd like to hear it.
I thought it wasn't about capacity? Why bring up RAM and storage?
arvand wrote:
This is not about capacity. We handle a lot of applications. Nopcommerce used to not use as much memory. But its not nopcommerce's fault.
This thread IS about NopCommerce. Yes, they use a lot of memory. Yes, it's not their fault. YES, it doesn't run well on YOUR shared platform.
arvand wrote:
Ultimately, your comments come from individuals who clearly don't understand the hosting world. Hardware NEEDS to be upgraded every 2 years. That's what it is.
Sith Lord. For all you know someone in this thread could be the CEO of GoDaddy or something. Again, bad P.R.
arvand wrote:
No mistakes were made here. We are just making sure that during this upgrade and migration, we are not actually causing issues for the 90+% of users who have absolutely no issues with our hosting. While doing the upgrade which will cater to the 1-10% that may have one issue or another with the shortage on memory.
No need to discuss the upgrade. I am sure your 90% users are happy since they probably run a two page static web site. This thread is about NOPCOMMERCE.
arvand wrote:
The goal for our shared hosting was never to be the mercedes of shared hosting (by the way there is no such a thing). That goes against the very principle of shared hosting. Shared hosting is meant to be affordable and feature rich. Not restrictive. But it comes with some issues (shared servers ALL come with issues, at ANY provider, if you haven't had any issues yet, it's because you haven't used it long enough yet). Which you are now experiencing.
The goal is to be something like the Hyundai of shared hosting. You get the most bang for your buck. And that's what it is.
Man, they should really keep you off these forums. You do more harm than good with your statements. So your service offer essentially comes with "some issues"?
Make sure you take a ride on one of the new Hyundai's. Things have changed. They are pretty good cars now.
arvand wrote:
You want to spend a lot of money? Then get a VPS. That's what its there for. And ours IS the most stable in the industry. I'll put any amount of money on it. And hence the price clearly outlines it.
I did get one. It didn't work. I would ask you to put your money on it and pay for my costs, only that Arvixe was nice enough to refund me. I am thankful for that although I did lost a client, time and revenue.
arvand wrote:
I'm not posting here to argue with people whose single aim is to bad mouth the Arvixe brand. If that was it, I wouldn't be posting here.
Do your company a favor and don't post anywhere. Let the P.R. pros handle it. Trust me on that one.
arvand wrote:
It's to simply outline some options for current customers (who are here) and appreciate what we are doing (and there is many more of them at Arvixe than any of the companies you've mentioned - http://www.arvixe.com/survey/results ) but are not happy with their current situation. And an option is there, we will create a free account for them on the new 2012 servers today and they can use it until they transfer all data off of the old account.
This is not the place to outline options for current customers. We are discussing NopCommerce hosting and as you mentioned yourself before, it doesn't work on your shared plan.
arvand wrote:
That being said, I'm sorry that I crashed your party here of bashing Arvixe. Please do continue. But for the sake of being fair. Compare apples to apples. And don't assume. Use facts.
We have a liaison here (which I very much appreciate - Thank you) who will be able to escalate any actual customer issues. What's sad is half of these posts are by individuals who haven't even used our hosting services...
[/quote]
No party here. Just former dissatisfied Arvixe customers.
Yes, please leave the comments to your liaison. He is much more polite and less of a waste of time.
Lashing out at former customers publicly is not going to do you any good.
Server capacity goes hand in hand with utilization. I don't need to be a hosting guru to know that. Just so you know, I am a computer consultant and run my own business. I am also a Software Engineer with 15+ years of experience.
Just because it's a shared server doesn't mean you have to overload it with hundreds of customers/applications. It's called planning.
arvand wrote:
Now, please do outline, which one of our competitors are putting you on a server not only with 192 GB of ram but also OS/SQL/mySQL on SSD drive RAID and your data on 15K RPM RAID? Please do, because I'd like to hear it.
I thought it wasn't about capacity? Why bring up RAM and storage?
arvand wrote:
This is not about capacity. We handle a lot of applications. Nopcommerce used to not use as much memory. But its not nopcommerce's fault.
This thread IS about NopCommerce. Yes, they use a lot of memory. Yes, it's not their fault. YES, it doesn't run well on YOUR shared platform.
arvand wrote:
Ultimately, your comments come from individuals who clearly don't understand the hosting world. Hardware NEEDS to be upgraded every 2 years. That's what it is.
Sith Lord. For all you know someone in this thread could be the CEO of GoDaddy or something. Again, bad P.R.
arvand wrote:
No mistakes were made here. We are just making sure that during this upgrade and migration, we are not actually causing issues for the 90+% of users who have absolutely no issues with our hosting. While doing the upgrade which will cater to the 1-10% that may have one issue or another with the shortage on memory.
No need to discuss the upgrade. I am sure your 90% users are happy since they probably run a two page static web site. This thread is about NOPCOMMERCE.
arvand wrote:
The goal for our shared hosting was never to be the mercedes of shared hosting (by the way there is no such a thing). That goes against the very principle of shared hosting. Shared hosting is meant to be affordable and feature rich. Not restrictive. But it comes with some issues (shared servers ALL come with issues, at ANY provider, if you haven't had any issues yet, it's because you haven't used it long enough yet). Which you are now experiencing.
The goal is to be something like the Hyundai of shared hosting. You get the most bang for your buck. And that's what it is.
Man, they should really keep you off these forums. You do more harm than good with your statements. So your service offer essentially comes with "some issues"?
Make sure you take a ride on one of the new Hyundai's. Things have changed. They are pretty good cars now.
arvand wrote:
You want to spend a lot of money? Then get a VPS. That's what its there for. And ours IS the most stable in the industry. I'll put any amount of money on it. And hence the price clearly outlines it.
I did get one. It didn't work. I would ask you to put your money on it and pay for my costs, only that Arvixe was nice enough to refund me. I am thankful for that although I did lost a client, time and revenue.
arvand wrote:
I'm not posting here to argue with people whose single aim is to bad mouth the Arvixe brand. If that was it, I wouldn't be posting here.
Do your company a favor and don't post anywhere. Let the P.R. pros handle it. Trust me on that one.
arvand wrote:
It's to simply outline some options for current customers (who are here) and appreciate what we are doing (and there is many more of them at Arvixe than any of the companies you've mentioned - http://www.arvixe.com/survey/results ) but are not happy with their current situation. And an option is there, we will create a free account for them on the new 2012 servers today and they can use it until they transfer all data off of the old account.
This is not the place to outline options for current customers. We are discussing NopCommerce hosting and as you mentioned yourself before, it doesn't work on your shared plan.
arvand wrote:
That being said, I'm sorry that I crashed your party here of bashing Arvixe. Please do continue. But for the sake of being fair. Compare apples to apples. And don't assume. Use facts.
We have a liaison here (which I very much appreciate - Thank you) who will be able to escalate any actual customer issues. What's sad is half of these posts are by individuals who haven't even used our hosting services...
[/quote]
No party here. Just former dissatisfied Arvixe customers.
Yes, please leave the comments to your liaison. He is much more polite and less of a waste of time.
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- Egypt
arvand wrote:
And what makes you think a shared plan server is going to stay at 10 applications? It's a shared server. That means that you are sharing it with other users. And hence the users can create new applications. Did you not know what you were buying when you purchased at Arvixe? We provide the most for less. That also does mean that you are going to be sharing the server with a lot of other applications.
Now, please do outline, which one of our competitors are putting you on a server not only with 192 GB of ram but also OS/SQL/mySQL on SSD drive RAID and your data on 15K RPM RAID? Please do, because I'd like to hear it.
The numbers I stated were just to emphasize the fact that utilization is what matters, not capacity. I thought it goes without saying that I understand that putting 10 applications ONLY on a 32GB server means going bankrupt in the world of shared hosting. I am little surprised that you decided to criticize my "10 apps on a 32GB server" comment but not address the actual point I was making:"utilization is the real KPI not capacity". Also, the growth in the number and complexity of applications over time does not matter, because it would probably be the same percentage for old and new servers, which again, brings the issue down to utilization. But if the growth factor has been catered for in a better way on your new servers, than again this just means that you are under utilizing the servers in order to cater for growth, and this has nothing to do with capacity.
One more thing. No, I am not a customer of your company, and I wasn't. But I would just like to draw your kind attention that this also isn't your company's forum. The subject of this thread is "Best hosting company for nopCommerce". And I am here because I wanted to share my experience about hosting nopCommerce. I don't have to be a previous Arvixe customer in order to be here. And I also don't have to be an Arvice customer in order to tell other forum users that I think that utilization is more important than capacity.
And what makes you think a shared plan server is going to stay at 10 applications? It's a shared server. That means that you are sharing it with other users. And hence the users can create new applications. Did you not know what you were buying when you purchased at Arvixe? We provide the most for less. That also does mean that you are going to be sharing the server with a lot of other applications.
Now, please do outline, which one of our competitors are putting you on a server not only with 192 GB of ram but also OS/SQL/mySQL on SSD drive RAID and your data on 15K RPM RAID? Please do, because I'd like to hear it.
The numbers I stated were just to emphasize the fact that utilization is what matters, not capacity. I thought it goes without saying that I understand that putting 10 applications ONLY on a 32GB server means going bankrupt in the world of shared hosting. I am little surprised that you decided to criticize my "10 apps on a 32GB server" comment but not address the actual point I was making:"utilization is the real KPI not capacity". Also, the growth in the number and complexity of applications over time does not matter, because it would probably be the same percentage for old and new servers, which again, brings the issue down to utilization. But if the growth factor has been catered for in a better way on your new servers, than again this just means that you are under utilizing the servers in order to cater for growth, and this has nothing to do with capacity.
One more thing. No, I am not a customer of your company, and I wasn't. But I would just like to draw your kind attention that this also isn't your company's forum. The subject of this thread is "Best hosting company for nopCommerce". And I am here because I wanted to share my experience about hosting nopCommerce. I don't have to be a previous Arvixe customer in order to be here. And I also don't have to be an Arvice customer in order to tell other forum users that I think that utilization is more important than capacity.
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- 3/22/2011
- United States
For what my comments are worth:
I have not used Arvixe. I have nothing to comment positively or negatively about Arvixe. However, the individual representing Arvixe - whose comments have raised a ruckus in previous postings - his comments convince me that I will not be looking to Arvixe as my hosting company, if a need ever arises to leave where I am at currently.
I have been with Applied Innovations for about 3 years. I have multiple nopcommerce sites hosted with them. I initially used there shared service for ecommerce since back in early 2011.
The site executed fast and the service is the best I have ever experienced. Because of the growth of the sites I chose to go with the VPS option about 10 months later. Yes, this approach is more expensive. My expectations and my owners expectations are high. We want our customers experience to be an exceptional one. Technology delivery is a critical part of delivering satisfaction for the customer.
I do not believe that a shared environment is the right place for eCommerce sites. I suspect that some will not agree with me, maybe many - that certainly is there right and position to do so.
I'd recommend looking at Applied Innovations as an option for an exceptional experience in technology and customer service. BTW I too am an independent technology provider. I am in no way associated with Applied Innovations except as an extremely happy customer using nopcommerce.
I have not used Arvixe. I have nothing to comment positively or negatively about Arvixe. However, the individual representing Arvixe - whose comments have raised a ruckus in previous postings - his comments convince me that I will not be looking to Arvixe as my hosting company, if a need ever arises to leave where I am at currently.
I have been with Applied Innovations for about 3 years. I have multiple nopcommerce sites hosted with them. I initially used there shared service for ecommerce since back in early 2011.
The site executed fast and the service is the best I have ever experienced. Because of the growth of the sites I chose to go with the VPS option about 10 months later. Yes, this approach is more expensive. My expectations and my owners expectations are high. We want our customers experience to be an exceptional one. Technology delivery is a critical part of delivering satisfaction for the customer.
I do not believe that a shared environment is the right place for eCommerce sites. I suspect that some will not agree with me, maybe many - that certainly is there right and position to do so.
I'd recommend looking at Applied Innovations as an option for an exceptional experience in technology and customer service. BTW I too am an independent technology provider. I am in no way associated with Applied Innovations except as an extremely happy customer using nopcommerce.
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- 1/4/2010
- United States
There's been a lot of constructive information shared here, and that's always a good thing. I think it might be a good time to step back for just a moment, and remember this.
Every person who uses an e-commerce application like nopCommerce is in the process of building a business presence; whether it's for their own company, or for that of a client, it's one of a thousand decisions made for that business. In the startup and growth phases of every business, it's a constant battle to choose where to spend your capital, and how to best serve the needs of the business.
Every business owner knows this battle; knows the sleepless nights second-guessing, hoping that they've made the right decision. Technology providers have it even harder; with the constant speed of change of technology, what might be the right decision today may be completely different from the right choice six months, or a year from now. Growth can be predicted, but not always fully anticipated - the range of choices grows ever more vast as that growth stage progresses.
All business builders have something else in common; a passion for their creation, very much like that of a parent for their child. I've raised children, and in addition to my services for Arvixe, I run my own business; the business of helping other businesses grow. Every customer is important, and it's always a challenge to balance value with service.
There's a huge level of passion and self that goes into creating a successful business. At times, that passion may not be expressed as eloquently as we might hope; it's often seen in the ferocious protectiveness that comes from nurturing a dream into reality, with all the trials and travails that entails.
Each and every person who's spoken in this thread has all these elements in common; with that much passion involved, it's easy to let words get heated. Let's remember that even a company like Arvixe started out as a small start-up, and that growth is an eternal learning process for every company.
Every person who uses an e-commerce application like nopCommerce is in the process of building a business presence; whether it's for their own company, or for that of a client, it's one of a thousand decisions made for that business. In the startup and growth phases of every business, it's a constant battle to choose where to spend your capital, and how to best serve the needs of the business.
Every business owner knows this battle; knows the sleepless nights second-guessing, hoping that they've made the right decision. Technology providers have it even harder; with the constant speed of change of technology, what might be the right decision today may be completely different from the right choice six months, or a year from now. Growth can be predicted, but not always fully anticipated - the range of choices grows ever more vast as that growth stage progresses.
All business builders have something else in common; a passion for their creation, very much like that of a parent for their child. I've raised children, and in addition to my services for Arvixe, I run my own business; the business of helping other businesses grow. Every customer is important, and it's always a challenge to balance value with service.
There's a huge level of passion and self that goes into creating a successful business. At times, that passion may not be expressed as eloquently as we might hope; it's often seen in the ferocious protectiveness that comes from nurturing a dream into reality, with all the trials and travails that entails.
Each and every person who's spoken in this thread has all these elements in common; with that much passion involved, it's easy to let words get heated. Let's remember that even a company like Arvixe started out as a small start-up, and that growth is an eternal learning process for every company.